In this episode of Nuclei's podcast, we are delighted to feature Mr. Naru Srinivasan, a seasoned professional with an impressive three decades of experience spanning diverse international banking landscapes. He currently serves as the Group COO & Chief Digital Officer at Dukhan Bank, Qatar.

Engaging in a candid dialogue with Ankur Joshi, CEO and founder of Nuclei, Mr. Srinivasan shares insights into his rich and diverse career across various geographies and prominent banks, including Standard Chartered Bank and Barclays Bank.

The podcast navigates through pivotal moments in Mr. Srinivasan's 35-year professional career and taps into his distinctive leadership style, shaped by a profound risk appetite and a penchant for taking on new challenges.

--Transcript Begins--

Ankur Joshi:

Hello, everyone! I'm Ankur Joshi, the founder and CEO of Nuclei. Welcome to our podcast, where we engage with senior bankers and leaders in the BFSI sector to understand their backgrounds, journeys, key learnings, and initiatives over the years. Today, I have the pleasure of inviting Naru Srinivasan to our podcast.

Naru sir brings extensive experience across various geographies and banks, with a significant tenure at Standard Chartered Bank and Barclays Bank. Currently, he leads initiatives as the CEO and Chief Digital Officer at Dukhan Bank in Qatar.

Naru Sir, welcome to the podcast. I look forward to our conversation.

Naru Srinivasan:

Good morning, Ankur. Great to be here with you. Thank you for the kind words in your introduction. I'm eager to chat with you. Thank you so much.

Ankur Joshi:

Awesome. Let me, as I usually do with our guests, roll back the years to your formative period. Let's delve into your upbringing, education, and key incidents during those years within the family or in school and college that shaped your path toward global banking. This is especially interesting considering the path you took in the 80s, pre-liberalization, a journey undertaken by very few during that time. We'd love to hear about that.

Naru Srinivasan:

Ankur, I'm not as old as I may appear—just 35 years in banking. So, I'll try to give you a quick career tour of 35 years in about three to four minutes. I'll also touch on the formative years and background, so bear with me for about four minutes. I'll provide a quick synopsis of my story thus far.

I'm an Indian. I started off in India, born in Kerala, brought up in Mumbai. All my education was in Mumbai. We come from a typical middle-class family. My mother was a homemaker, my father was the CFO in a couple of MNCs. We were three boys in the family: an elder brother, me in the middle, and a younger brother. Like most, we were focused on academics, given the typical upbringing in a conservative Tambram family in Mumbai.

I completed my graduation and post-graduation, earning an MBA from Mumbai. I was hired by Standard Chartered Bank in India as a covenant officer in 1988. I'll fast forward from 1988 to 2022 in about 35 years. I had a fantastic innings with Standard Chartered. I joined them because after finishing our MBA, banks and FMCG were given day zero status in campus recruitment. I interviewed with a few banks and chose Standard Chartered, one of the largest foreign banks in India.

As I look back, I've been extremely grateful for the emphasis on education and the experiences that shaped me. In 1989, I got confirmed and was part of the era when Standard Chartered considered computerizing their operations in India. I was made the project leader for computerizing branches in the West Zone, which included Mumbai and Goa. It was my first foray into operations, technology, and computers. I enjoyed it and learned how to bring about change and make an organization ready to accept and succeed in it.

In 1992, during the infamous security scam in India, Standard Chartered got entangled. I was one of the few thrown into the deep end and started working in the money market desk. It was a challenging but brilliant learning experience. Dealing in a treasury room is not just exciting; it's stressful and has its ups and downs, but overall, it was fun.

After that, I got an opportunity in Delhi in the retail side of the business as the zone manager for North. Though challenging initially, dealing with people issues, labor challenges, and Union strikes, it provided valuable experiences in understanding and working with people, scalability, and navigating through organizational challenges.

Around 1999, I moved back to Treasury, heading Treasury operations. I witnessed the birth of the Euro currency in 1999 and successfully transitioned into it. In 2000, Standard Chartered made a global acquisition of Grindlays Bank from ANZ across 13 countries. I was tasked with integrating the two Treasuries, my first foray into integration and what we now call M&A.

I successfully completed the integration, consolidating everything into one balance sheet, one treasury, one dealing room, and one face to the market. Around the same time, Standard Chartered contemplated creating the first-ever global hub for the bank, choosing India as the location. I was part of the team that grew from three people to 3000 in about 30 months, eventually reaching 8000 when I left in 2008.

This experience taught me about skill leadership, creating new concepts, migrating operations from different geographies and cultures into a central location, and growing a team from nothing to a large organization. It shaped my leadership style, and I'll delve more into that later, but let me now get to 2022.

Ankur Joshi:

Let me chime in.

Naru, one thing clearly stands out. Throughout your time at Standard Chartered Bank, you haven't stuck to just one role but have engaged in 5 or 6 different roles. I've encountered and known many individuals who have predominantly been traders, retail bankers, corporate bankers, or investment bankers, essentially confined to their respective silos. Your experiences are remarkably diverse. People rarely come across such a varied array of experiences within a single bank. Why did you choose this path? Was it a deliberate decision to explore multiple verticals, aiming to become a generalist and gain a variety of experiences, not only from a product perspective but also in terms of people management, scaling up organizations, and tackling the challenges associated with introducing new concepts and products? What motivated this decision, and how has it influenced your leadership style and personal development over time? How has the choice to become a generalist, rather than remaining a specialist in a single vertical, shaped your personality, decision-making, and leadership?

Naru Srinivasan:

Great question Ankur.

I've been fortunate to receive different opportunities at various points in time, all within the same organization. When we joined, I was part of a batch of 30 officers, and as you rightly pointed out, many individuals tend to get pigeonholed into specific departments, eventually becoming specialists. In my case, I believe I received these opportunities at the right times. However, it's not merely a matter of luck; one needs to be proactive and work towards seizing such opportunities. It has always been my passion, as I easily get bored. I enjoy variety, and I would attribute it partly to luck, but it also involves recognizing and embracing these opportunities.

Ankur Joshi:

You could have easily declined those opportunities, so there must be an underlying reason why you chose to pursue them.

Naru Srinivasan:

Yeah. Regarding my own personality, as I think aloud, I always realize that when things are going great after a couple of years, I want to stretch myself out of my comfort zone. This isn't just a nice, appreciative statement. Observing my career graph over the last 35 years, I've engaged in a myriad of things. There is a pattern, and every 2-3 years, something new happens. That's because I reach out for something new. The reason is pretty simple.

In Standard Chartered, all these multiple assignments have met with success. It's not just my personal success, but also the success of the teams I had the opportunity to lead. Being visible and having accountability for leading many of those initiatives was enjoyable. Of course, I've also faced some challenges and screw-ups, but seeking out new opportunities and challenges has been a constant. I've been in banking, operations, financial institutions group, technology, and the BPO, which is the backbone of operations. I've also been in risk management with Standard Chartered in London, dealing, and the priority bank of Standard Chartered. I've done different things at different points in time, and credit also goes to the organization for being willing to give these chances and taking risks with their talents.

The second thing is that in terms of my own leadership style, having been in trading or Treasury, I have a huge risk appetite. I'm willing to take risks at various points in time. If a new opportunity comes, I don't get scared or worried. I typically do a quick assessment. I am pretty quick when it comes to making decisions. Yes, I'll also be honest; not all my decisions are always right. But if eight out of ten are good, I think that's okay. Even God makes mistakes, so two out of ten is accepted. If eight out of ten are okay, let's get on with it.

My leadership style is that I don't know all the answers. I have no illusions about it. I deal with ambiguity well. I just frame the challenge. The way I see leadership is about talking possibility. It's the art of talking possibility, creating excitement, being positive, and courageous. More importantly, it's not just about framing the challenge but also leading the team with energy, support, and strategic decision-making. Looking back at my career and having worked in different countries, I've realized that dealing with people is not magic; it's a process. If you're authentic as a leader and people see credibility in you, nine out of ten times, they will do anything for you. I've experienced this across different countries, cultures, and roles. Showing professional will and personal humility, leadership is not about dazzling with a crown; it's about humility and taking ownership of the people you are accountable for. Showing respect, investing in their skill sets, making them knowledgeable, and ultimately successful. Even in difficult decisions like separations or redundancies, handling them transparently, objectively, and preserving the dignity of the employee, everyone responds positively.

For example, I still have friends from Pakistan, and we're still connected seven years after we divested that business. I've been to Lahore and Karachi a few times, and I'm confident they would still buy me dinner.

Ankur Joshi:

That’s really nice. So you have had a very impressive and a standout career, right? And why do I say standout? Because, as I mentioned, it's been very diverse, spanning multiple geographies and banks, and more specifically, across various verticals within a bank. For any young banker who may be just starting or a few years into their banking journey, what advice would you give them? If they want to chart out a path like yours, what should they do? And probably, more importantly, what should they not do?

Naru Srinivasan:

In our industry, the banking sector, when I entered in 1988, banking was often humorously summarized as 3-6-3: borrowing or accepting deposits at 3%, lending the same money out at 6%, and hitting the golf course by 3 PM. It was perceived as dealing with simple, mundane tasks like current accounts, fixed deposits, and savings accounts.

However, the '90s brought a shift towards more productized banking. Brands like Citibank introduced unfixed deposits, intensifying competition. In the last decade, technology disintermediation and fintech penetration have significantly impacted the industry. Challenges such as consolidation and the emergence of more banks than needed globally have led to a commoditization of the entire banking sector.

The fintech penetration has been so profound that our entire industry is largely getting commoditized, as I see it now. I believe we, as an industry, have gone through a tsunami. I'll tell you why it's a tsunami. If you flashback to say 2008, there was the big subprime banking crisis which led to a huge trust issue. Banking is all about trust. You leave your money with us because you trust me. When the core, the basic edifice of trust is questioned or suspected, it shakes the entire foundation. Our industry survived that. Then, at the end of the day, we operate in an economy, and the laws of economics are absolutely important for us to keep our business not just successful but sustainable. Now, if you're seeing—fortunately—inflation is raring up. Interest rates are going up. But for the last 15 years or almost two decades, it has been an era of low interest in our economies.

Right? At the same time, the 3-6-3 principle doesn't work. I can't borrow money at 3% and lend that back at 6%. Rather, I borrow money at, say, 3% and lend it back at 3.02%. Which means my own jaws or my own profit margins are significantly getting eroded. And for that same size of the business, there are enough and more people who are clamoring for competition. Then there has also been a sort of regulatory firestorm for our industry. There are much bigger disclosure issues and much bigger expectations not just from our regulators but even from our own customers. Thanks to Fintech, they come in and offer significant chunks of popular products like moving money, remittances, and cash. Fintech or the money exchange companies are able to do it much faster, much cheaper, and much quicker. So most of the luxury businesses or safe businesses have been eaten away. Our industry itself has gone through significant challenges, and I think globally, there are more banks than they actually need. I think there is still scope for significant consolidation now.

Addressing your earlier question about my experiences, I consider myself fortunate because these challenges have been immensely beneficial. The ongoing consolidation, integrations, and mergers align with my diverse experiences over the last 30 years, offering a comprehensive perspective and understanding. This background proves valuable in asking the right questions, as leadership involves engaging in the right conversations and making informed decisions. These experiences become particularly useful during challenging conversations and negotiations.

Now, if I were to offer advice to young professionals—though I might feel old—I would encourage them to be open-minded and adaptable. The banking industry, over the next 5 to 7 years, will not only undergo consolidation but also witness a significant transformation in the technological landscape. There will be disruptors similar to Ubers and Amazons in banking, reshaping the industry. While banking involves capital, risk appetite, skill sets, and branding to attract customers, it doesn't necessarily demand an extensive array of technology applications. Building a robust brand can potentially allow banks to divest the hard work and costs associated with technology, similar to how Uber doesn't own cars or employ drivers. While being a specialist holds value, it's crucial not to get pigeonholed and limit career opportunities.

Ankur Joshi:

Thank you so much. That's a very, very important piece of advice. In our discussion earlier, we also emphasized the idea that all of us should strive to become a T-shaped or pie-shaped personality—specialists in minority verticals but possessing working knowledge across various verticals. This approach fosters empathy with each sector. Without understanding the intricacies of operations, sales, or treasury, it becomes challenging to empathize with individuals in those roles.

Transitioning from empathy to kindness, I have one final question for you, sir. What is the kindest thing that anyone has done for you?

Naru Srinivasan:

Oh, quite a lot, actually. I mean it when I say this in terms of luck because 35 years into my career, that's dominating my life at this point in time since I'm not 70. It dominated around 60% or 70% of my life in the first 20 years—you grow up, study, and whatnot.

As I look back, I think I've been lucky with a lot of good bosses in all three organizations, different countries, different cultures. So, I've had more great bosses than nasty or difficult bosses. You get some oddballs as well. I think observing good leaders and bosses around you shapes your thinking and helps you deal with situations and issues that you confront. So, I think I've been lucky with good bosses.

I've also been lucky with great friends and a great team. For example, some of my best friends are still from Standard Chartered. I left the organization about 14 years ago, but I still have my mates there. It's just a phone call for me, and then off you go. You don't need to have any great agenda, great formality, just being a message and you can bounce off ideas. So, that network has been very, very useful, and I've also been blessed with good teams. Some of the teams that I've led even 20 years ago or 30 years ago are still in touch, which I think, as I look back, I feel very happy and satisfied because the fact that they're still in touch with you and they take your calls means that you've been a good boss, you've been a good human being.

I genuinely believe in treating people the way you'd like to be treated yourself. You know, that's been my guiding spirit. I don't know whether it's our upbringing or the values that my parents taught us, even my brothers; that's the way we have always been, our outlook on life. So that's been one good thing.

Finally, at the end of the day, why do we do all these things? It has to have a purpose. What is the purpose of life? So, you know, purpose and maybe a corollary could be: How do you see success? Obviously, you don't do something to keep falling and enduring yourself. You need to feel content; you need to feel happy about it now. I keep thinking, you know, what success I reflect when I joined the bank in 1988, and Standard Chartered is a very hierarchical organization. You join at a grade, then you keep scaling that up. And as I looked at it those days, my definition of success would be from this grade to this grade to a grade at this point in time, then you're a rock star, right? But as I look back, you know, it was very naive, maybe a bit childish. You know, that thought process today after 35 years, my outlook, my definition of success is definitely much more dimensional and much more broad-based.

Yeah, career success, of course, it is because it feeds many other things in your life. But aside from career success, I think it is important to have wellness. Good health, good habits, and good health are very, very important. You need to have relationships; if you have great relationships, not just husband, wife, or father, son, or father-daughter or brother-sister, but I think relationships generally with your surroundings and your ecosystem. So do you have friends from your childhood? You have friends from your organization. You have friends from your society that you're part of? Right? So I think that friendship quotient is very, very important because that helps you very often if you have a lot of clouds, a lot of worries in your head, a lot of stress. Then, of course, at the end of the day, this relates to my point of purpose.

You need to give back to society, right? So whatever you have gathered at the end of the day, you don't take anything with you, which is again a cliche point, but how do you give it back? Not just in the form of a monetary donation, but how do you actually help the society? Which is important then also some spiritual grounding. I might try and do that as best as I can because it helps clear a lot of confidence in my own mind, and there are lots of questions for which I have no clue. But all these things sort of help you, and if you can balance all these things in a very rational, objective, and talk-through manner, it helps the purpose of your life in a successful manner. So I don't know whether I answered the question, but please look at it.

Ankur Joshi:

You answered it very, very well. Thank you so much, Naru. This has been a very fascinating conversation. I really appreciate you taking time out for us and looking forward to meeting you soon again.

Naru Srinivasan:

Likewise, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Look forward to seeing you. Thank you for this opportunity.

Ankur Joshi:

Thank you. Bye-bye.

--Transcript Ends--